How Does a Good Market Strategy Help to Create a Good Company?

Corporate Social Responsibility Good Growth
Market Strategy

Transcript: How Does a Good Market Strategy Help to Create a Good Company?

Hello, everyone. I’m Edmund Bradford and I’m delighted to have with me today Professor Malcolm McDonald. We’re going to be talking about marketing, shareholder value and how that connects to being a good company.

And in this video, we’re going to be looking specifically at that link to being a good company.

So Professor Malcolm Mcdonald, thank you again for joining us.

How do you think a good market strategy can contribute to a company being a good or a better company in the future?

Some useful academic research

Well, Ed, I think of all the questions you’ve asked me over the past few years, that’s probably one of the easiest to answer and there is quite a lot of research to back up what I’m saying. Let me give you an example. I had a Professorial colleague at Cranfield called, Professor Hugh Davidson, probably quite well known to anybody who’s listening to this.

He did some research over a number of years and he wrote this book called The Committed Enterprise.  I forget how many respondents there were but I think it was something like 30 major companies that over many, many years had been successful.

And it was interesting that every single one of those organizations had been good citizens and properly embraced what we call CSR (corporate social responsibility).

A tale of two companies

If you bring yourself up-to-date and look at a company like Unilever, I was privileged to be sitting in an audience recently when we were interviewing Paul Polman who was the  group Chief Executive of Unilever. I can tell you that, and it isn’t just window dressing, every single thing that Unilever do: its ethical behavior permeates everything they do.

If I may, I’ll just read out a quote from Paul Polman. He said, “If you want to make the company grow longer-term, you have to get out of the rat race of quarterly reports and quarterly behavior. Many companies manipulate their behaviors and their spending to avoid missing expectations.”

And I mean, this is true. This is what he did and it’s quite interesting. Over ten years, the share value as tripled of Unilever. All of that hand-in-hand with CSR and good behavior. So a real exemplar.

You compare that with somebody like Enron. There may be people listening to this who can’t remember Enron. But Enron was focused on budgets and the short term, and people used to cheat and lie. And they got to the point where they even broke the law. And you know what happened to that organization.

The problem with cost-cutting

Now, just a quick aside here and that is that cost-cutting is not a strategy. I know, Ed, you’ve heard me talk about it before. I call it “anorexia industrialosa” or an excessive desire to be leaner and fitter leading to emaciation and eventually death. And I say, well, how many pence are there in a pound? How many cents are in a Euro? How many cents are there in the dollar? It’s finite. There are only so many of those you can cut.

I’m not suggesting you shouldn’t be cost-effective. What I’m suggesting is that you need to go back to the fundamentals of understanding your markets, understanding the needs of people in those markets and making an offer to them that makes people want to buy from you rather than from somebody who’s got something similar.

The goal: to create value

So to summarize this and to me, it’s easy to say this is very difficult to achieve the way Unilever has done it. But to me, what we should be doing is trying to build great relationships with markets and customers. If you can create value for customers, that’s great for those in the company who create that value. It’s great for all stakeholders and it’s great for the planet.

And that’s really where, I say, it’s not easy to do. But there are organizations around like Unilever, one of the biggest companies globally, that live and breathe good corporate behavior and the results are showing financially.

So that’s possibly not a direct answer to your question Ed, but they’re just my thoughts off the top of my head.

The moral: market strategy enables sustainability

No, you have answered it, and they’re excellent thoughts. And we’ve talked about Unilever before on these videos, and they’re a really good company to think about.

One interesting aspect of Unilever is how, when they were looking at having better labor conditions with their tea plantations.

They realized that actually there was going to be a problem if you pay your suppliers more money, of course, the danger is that you’re going to have to put the prices up, and therefore lose market share.

But they did their market research and realized that there was some price inelasticity there, and they could actually put prices up if they targeted tea in the right segment.

And I think for me, there’s a moral there that marketers and market strategy have a big role to play in companies becoming more sustainable because you can point your products, your brands, your whole company, towards those customers that are interested, that have those sort of needs.

And as you said in the earlier videos, Malcolm, try to steer away from the ones that may say they’re interested, but not when they get to the checkout and trying position yourselves better amongst the growing mass of consumers.

Let’s not forget B2B, Malcolm, the key accounts. So some people watching this may be serving Unilever. Those accounts themselves are generally interested in having a good supply chain.

Unilever has today launched a new initiative to encourage its suppliers to commit to reducing their greenhouse gas (GHG) emissions, in a bid to accelerate efforts to deliver on the consumer goods company’s target to achieve net-zero emissions across its value chain by 2039.

So marketing has got a good role to play in market segmentation, positioning, as well as helping the KAM community.

Is that right, Malcolm?

Hear, hear! Ed

Excellent. Okay, that’s great. Well, hopefully, that’s been helpful to everybody. I feel we are scratching the surface, but very, very useful.

In the final video, we’re going to get onto the subject of branding and get Malcolm’s views on what he thinks makes a really good brand.

So again, thank you, Malcolm. I look forward to catching up with you soon.

How does a Good Market Strategy Improves Shareholder Value?

Good Growth Marketing
Shareholder Value

Transcript: How Does a Good Market Strategy Improve Shareholder Value?

Hello everyone this is Edmund Bradford and I’m delighted to have with me my good friend and colleague, Professor Malcolm McDonald. We’ve done a lot of things together, both at universities and out there with real companies.

Malcolm has over 30 years I would say (without putting too much of a number on it ) over 30 years of experience in marketing and is truly one of the great marketers out there in the world and in this short series of videos we’re talking about shareholder value , we’re talking about marketing and how they both connect together and also how they connect into just being a good company. So, welcome again Malcolm and thank you for joining us. So I’ve asked now that simple question about, how does a good market strategy improve shareholder value?

Wow! Again Ed, you are known certainly to me and those who know you for asking very difficult questions and this isn’t the easiest question to answer but I will give it a go. I mean first of all to put it in perspective what are the components of a marketing strategy anyway and you know I’ve sort of made a bit of a list here it’s not complete but it’s got the essential elements in it.

First of all, you need in an organization an inspiring vision. You need clear strategies, you need rigorous segment and brand positioning, you need consistent innovation, you need superior customer value, you need high employee morale, you need tight cost control and concern for all stakeholders.

Now what could be easier than that and the thing is I’ve got 127 scholarly references which obviously I won’t bore people with today but over a long, long period, these scholarly references have drawn a link between successful marketing strategies and long-run financial success – and you know, they are very similar to the list I’ve just (you know) spoken about. I mean firstly, you know you’ve got a deep understanding of how the market works. That’s common across all successful companies.

Correct needs-based market segmentation, not that garbage that’s taught in many places about socioeconomics and demographics and geodemographics. I mean, for example, just to get it out of the way, Prince Charles and Ozzy Osborne are both in socioeconomic group A but I don’t think they behave the same!

And you’ve got understanding customer needs.  It sounds simple, hard to do but it’s a factor. And then differentiation, positioning and branding and planning for the future.

Now i know in my work, Ed, what kind of organization I’m going to be facing when I get the board of directors (the operating board of directors) and my first question to them is, without talking to each other, write down on a piece of paper (or type into your computer), “What are your key target markets in order of priority?”  The second part of that question is pretty obvious: “Against each of these key target markets what’s your company’s sources of differential advantage?”

And invariably companies that haven’t got those characteristics, instead of talking about key target markets, they start wittering on about their products. And it reminds me of (you know) the near disaster that IBM had when they thought they were in the mainframe market and more recently (oh, and Gestetner thought they were in the duplicator market) and more recently Kodak thought they were in the camera and film market and Nokia thought they were in the phones market. It’s not products – and it hasn’t been for ages – that give you differentiation and create satisfaction for customers. It’s the way you relate to your customers and your markets.

I just want to, by way of closing this off, to give you one quick example of the silly notion that people have about what is called CSR, Corporate Social Responsibility. Of course you have to have it but it has to go hand-in-hand with shareholder value-added because if it doesn’t it’s not going to work.

I give you one example there is a famous chemical company that used to be the bellwether of the British stock exchange and it was a wonderful company. It was good to its employees, loved working for it. It was good to local communities, it was good to charities and so on and so forth. The problem was, it wasn’t as good as satisfying customer needs as the DuPonts and the Siemens of the world. Consequently, their shareholder value was not in the same category and started reducing. The result of that was hundreds of thousands of people unemployed, no more money for charities, no more money for local communities and so on and so forth. So I’m afraid, in order to be a good citizen you also have to create shareholder value and I hope during these brief few minutes, Ed, I’ve given you the components of what the successful strategies are so I better stop wittering on now and say that’s my answer.

That’s excellent Malcolm and I know that you are a big believer in marketing not being in the basement of companies and in a way that it is dangerous being in the basement of companies. It needs to be in the boardroom of companies and there’s a big misunderstanding, I think, around marketing that  ‘strategy’ is done by somebody else, somewhere else. Another function, another person and marketing – I remember you saying – marketing is really the people that blow the balloons (you know) at corporate events. So I think the point you’re making is that marketing has a major role to play in actually creating shareholder value by the impact and the influence that they have on the market-facing strategy that the company is adopting.

Of course and if you think about that example I gave you when I’ve got a board of directors there and I asked them what their key target markets are and what – in order of priority – and what their sources of differential advantage are. If they can’t answer those questions, Ed, it tells you straight away that whatever they think marketing is they haven’t got it in the organization. Because what is it that makes organizations successful? It’s actually selling something to somebody, you better know who you want to sell it to, you’d better understand their needs and you’d better make them an offer that makes them want to buy from you rather than from somebody else who’s got something similar.

Now I don’t care whether you call that “marketing strategy” or what but it’s a bit fundamental and if companies can’t answer those questions then I know they haven’t got successful marketing strategies and therefore they will either be in a growth market but they won’t be profitable for long or they’re about to go belly-up because sooner or later you have to get those components in place.

Thank you Malcolm, that’s excellent. That is a huge subject as we said but we’re deliberately keeping these little conversations short.  In the next conversation we’re going to be talking about how a good market strategy helps you to be a better company. So thank you once again Malcolm and I look forward to speaking to you again shortly.

What is Shareholder Value Added and Why Should We Care About it?

Good Growth Marketing Risk
Shareholder Value-Added

In this interview we explain:

  • What is Shareholder Value-Added
  • Why is an important concept to understand
  • The importance of risk assessment


Transcript for: What is Shareholder Value-Added?

[00:00:05 –> 00:00:58] EdmundWell, Hello, everyone. This is Edmund Bradford, and I’m delighted to have with me today, Professor Malcolm McDonald. And we’re talking about three things, really. We’re talking about shareholder value, marketing, and how that connects to being a good company. And in the last video, we just kind of got an introduction to the subject of shareholders and what shareholders are interested in. But I know I’ve heard about and talk about this a lot and it isn’t easy to package up into a few small minutes. I think it’d be interesting just to at least pick up on the subject of shareholder value-added, which can be very technical, but I think it’s worth just trying to get ahead around that particular area. So Hello, Malcolm, and welcome to the Interview again.
[00:00:59 –> 00:00:59] MalcolmHello Ed
[00:01:00 –> 00:01:08] EdmundCould you summarize what is shareholder value and why anybody should care about it?
[00:01:08 –> 00:04:10] MalcolmWell, I must say, it’s an enticing thought to try and make a topic like shareholder value-added interesting and exciting. It clearly isn’t other than to those people who benefit from it. In the main, these are shareholders. But let’s keep it simple. I mean, what is it? Well, everybody knows what net free cash flow is and its net free cash flow having taken account of the time value of money, and you think that’s not a difficult concept because of the time value of money, you’d rather have a pound or a dollar or a Euro today than you would in five years time. So having taken account for the time value of money, the cost of capital, which I’ll talk a little bit about because it’s not the most exciting topic in the world and of course, the risks associated with the company or the organization’s strategy. And let me give you one very simple example of this. If, for example, keeping the math simple, the cost of capital is 10% and you’re a small company and you’ve got £20,000 invested in your company. And as I say, the cost of capital is 10%. If you make a net profit net free cash flow of 1500 pounds, you have actually destroyed £500 worth of shareholder value. If you, on the other hand, make £2000 net free cash flow net profit, you have neither created nor destroyed shareholder value. If on the other hand, you’ve created, let us say £2500 worth of profit, you’ve created £500 with a shoulder value. And the question I ask most people, I say what sort of nutty what sort of idiot would deliberately set out to destroy shareholder value? Because the point is it started off with a guy called Rappaport and then morphed into what’s become shareholder value-added. Now the world is full of expressions like Return on Investment, Rona, DCF Payback, Net profit, EBIDTA, Brand Equity, Customer Equity, Customer Lifetime Value, and so on. Each one, in its own way, is very valuable and tells you something different. But the reality is that the one that has filtered to the top over the last 15 or 20 years is shareholder value-added. And, you know, if you rather than going into all the details, it’s quite important for marketers, for example, to understand what the cost of capital is because every organization has it. It’s the one hurdle you’ve got to get it over in order to justify investment funds.
[00:04:13 –> 00:05:47] MalcolmThat’s one side of it. I talked about the time value of money, the big one, however, and the complicated one is this expression. I use risk, the risk of the strategy of the organization. It’s extremely complex, and I don’t want to muddy the waters now, other than to say, you know, there’s a model called a capital asset pricing model, which explains how stock markets work. All I’d say is that, in summary, a normal, rational, risk-averse investor requires an increase in expected future returns for any more risky investment in order to compensate for any potential volatility. I mean, that, to me, is a blinding glimpse of the obvious, but risk assessment has risen very high on the agenda of those organizations and people like me who work with organizations globally in assessing risk. And the best companies in the world do assess risk. Formally, we call it due diligence, but the best companies have processes in place to make sure that they have taken account of risk in their predictions for shareholder value-added. I think probably I will stop there because, as I say, it’s not the most exciting topic in the world. But I hope I have at least explained how it works and why it is so important.
[00:05:47 –> 00:07:23] EdmundYou have Malcolm, and you’ve done that is normally when I hear you present this, you’ve got some charts and graphs and things to help. And I think in concept is actually quite simple, really, because what we’re saying is that an investor has different alternatives to where to put their money. And if you’re not delivering the minimum returns, the cost of capital that they’re looking for, they don’t need to invest in your marketing project or even your company at all. They can invest that money elsewhere and get a better return. So just because you’ve got a good payback plan, you’re making some good profit doesn’t necessarily mean that actually, you’ve reached the minimum cost of capital. And that cost of capital, as you said, is dependent on time, time adjusted returns, and is also dependent on the risk that’s factored into it. And that is a big area. And in a giving your book, for example, in marketing and finance book, you talk about different types of risk. For example, market share risk is one sort of risk. In our book we do together, there’s an implementation risk as well, that the objectives that you set out, the strategy that you laid out doesn’t get implemented successfully. So risk itself is a huge area. But I think in a way, marketers can’t shy away from it. Understanding risk and how it’s used as a major area to get head around.
[00:07:23 –> 00:07:46] MalcolmYeah. And I suppose it’s pretty obvious at the end of the day that if a company has a history of its profits going up and down and so on and so forth, it’s known as a volatile company, and therefore the shareholders will require a high return to take account of that risk. So it’s a pretty simple concept at the end of the day.
[00:07:47 –> 00:08:12] EdmundExcellent. Thank you, Malcolm. Thank you for simplifying what can be very difficult and technical subject. I’m sure that’s really useful to a lot of people. In our next video, we’re going to be talking about how a good market strategy could improve shareholder value. So thank you again, Malcolm, for your time this morning. Much appreciated. And looking forward to our next conversation.

Are shareholders only interested in short-term profits?

Good Growth Marketing
Shareholder short-term

A key challenge for any company wishing to achieve long-term, sustainable, Good Growth is dealing with shareholder demands for short-term profits. But to what extent is this a real or a perceived problem?  In this interview, Professor Malcolm McDonald discusses:

  • The alignment between profits and long-term success
  • The reality of sustainable consumer behavior
  • The future trend towards sustainable corporate behavior


Transcript: Are shareholders only interested in short-term profits?

[00:00:06 –> 00:01:19] Edmund Hello, everyone. I’m Edmund Bradford. In this short series of videos, we’re going to be talking about a very important subject, which is shareholder value and how it links with marketing and just being a good company. And to help us with that particular topic, I’m delighted (and I mean that from the bottom of my heart) I’m delighted to have my good friend and colleague, Professor Malcolm McDonald with us. Now, I could do a very long introduction, Malcolm, but I will keep it short. I think the only thing people need to know really, is that you’ve been in this business “for 600 years” as you would say, and you’ve written over 50 books on the subject of marketing and finance, etc, etc. You’ve got a very good book – and I don’t mind giving it a plug – called “Marketing and Finance, Creating Shareholder Value” now in its Second Edition. So if anybody wants to know more about the subject, please go and check out that book. And so you’re one of the best people. I think we could have to talk about the subject. So Hello, Malcolm.
[00:01:19 –> 00:01:21] MalcolmGood morning. Good afternoon. Good day.
[00:01:21 –> 00:01:37] Edmund: Should we start with this simple question of what is a shareholder and are shareholders only interested in short-term profits?
[00:01:38 –> 00:06:18] MalcolmWow, Ed, you are a colleague and a friend, but you do ask very difficult questions. So let me think about the answer. First of all, there are many categories of shareholders, as you will know, from the individual to those who belong to things like mutual funds. For example, I’m an individual shareholder in a bank, but I also get to draw pensions from organizations like the University superannuation scheme which they invest on our behalf. And I don’t know how many of us pay attention to where they invest, but we assume that they’re decent human beings and don’t invest in organizations that are not good for our planet and society. But secondly, and I think this is most important, we know that there undoubtedly are shareholders who are not interested only in short term profits. But there’s really no conflict in this because, as I’ll show later, I hope I’ll spell out that most environmentally friendly companies also tend to be the most profitable. So there’s no conflict there. However, let me put one big “definite maybe” in here about all this, as often I perceive a big gap between what people say they’re going to do, what sounds good when being interviewed, and what they actually do. And let me give you an example. I mean, for example, more than 60% of younger consumers, according to Accenture, consider a firm’s ethical values before buying its products. The problem with that is if you look at Boohoo, for example, when it was revealed that they were paying their factory workers less than the minimum wage, did it affect them? Well, sales revenue is up by 41%. Profits increased by 37% to March 2021. And if you look at Amazon, you know, regularly criticized for their harsh employment conditions and aggressive tax avoidance measures. Yet customers spent more than £272 Billion with the company last year. And we’ll give you one last example: Volkswagen. They were found to have cheated on diesel emission tests. And yet, you know, five years later, the group achieved its highest market share ever, 22.1%. The reason, I think, is (perhaps it’s obvious or maybe it’s not obvious) that is if you ask someone, “Do you want brands to be ethical?” Nobody in their right mind is going to say, “No.” But the answer, of course, is that this social purpose will come very low on the list. Perhaps when money is involved and they get their wallets out, they get their purses out. Now, my personal view on this is that shareholders are very similar, but the consequences are grave indeed and just cannot go on. We have to change and we are changing and we will change. For example, the old Take,  Make, Waste model for the past 250 years is no longer sustainable. We just don’t have resources such as land, forest, water, metals, and mineral fuels to keep up with demand. In fact, according to Accenture, we’ll consume three planets’ worth of resources every year by 2050. And this will translate into trillion-dollar losses for companies and countries that remain tied to using these natural resources. And one last point, which I will conclude on this first question, let me say that we’re just one small step away from one lucky person, owning more wealth than the bottom half of the world’s population. Currently, it’s 62 people. Now that cannot go on. There will be legislation, if nothing else, to change that. The world cannot go on in that mode. So maybe I haven’t answered your question Ed, but they’re my rambling thoughts on the question of,  “Are shareholders only being interested in short-term profits?”
[00:06:18 –> 00:07:13] Edmund : I think that was excellent, Malcolm. I just wondered, because of course, you get different types of shareholder. Not all shareholders are created equal. And what some companies are finding is that, of course, some shareholders are actually more receptive to thinking about the long-term view, thinking about sustainability and ethics, for example. Do you think that actually, you could almost segment the shareholder market into different types of shareholders and almost in a way, they look for a balanced portfolio of products? You could also look for a balanced portfolio of shareholders with some that are more interested in the long term and some which are more interested in the short term. Can you borrow some thinking for marketing to do that?
[00:07:14 –> 00:08:11] MalcolmPossibly that is a possibility, Ed. But all I would say is that by definition, the people who are shareholders tend to be better off people in the main, and they’re probably in the higher echelons of intelligence as well. It occurred to me that there is a change taking place, and increasingly there is a realization that it is those organizations who are good to the planet, who are also the most profitable. And I think that that will begin to come into play increasingly over the next five to ten years. So there is hope for us. And I think this endemic of short-termism is, in my perception, reducing slowly but surely.
[00:08:11 –> 00:08:29] EdmundThank you very much, Malcolm. That’s excellent. And in the next video, we’re going to be talking a little bit, and going to go down a little bit into a bit more detail, and talk about what we mean by ‘Shareholder Value Added.’ So for the moment, thank you very much for that Malcolm and I’m sure that has been very helpful to a lot of people.

How “ESG” and Good Growth fits together

ESG Good Growth
ESG and Good Growth

Environment Social Governance and Good Growth companies Abstract

  • Pooja Khosla and Edmund Bradford discuss the concept of good growth and how it fits into the concept of being a good company.
  • Pooja says that ESG is designed to provide standardized metrics to measure how an organization impacts all the creatures that live on the planet, including  human beings.
  • Edmund says that investors are stepping up to utilize this knowledge to support Good Growth which is beyond and better than regular growth.

Transcript How does ESG fits into Good Growth

[00:00:08 –> 00:01:11] EdmundHello, everyone. My name is Edmund Bradford. I’m director of the Good Growth Academy. And in these little videos, we’re looking at the subject of, ESG   which is a major term used commonly when talking about sustainability, especially by the investor community. Today we’re going to be thinking about how ESG fits into the concept of good growth. And to help you with that, I’m very pleased to welcome Dr Pooja Khosla, who’s vice president of client development at Entelligent. Good morning Pooja thank you for joining us. So we talked to the last video about what ESG is, how it’s different from sustainability, and why it’s important. What is it designed to do and how does it fit into the kind of concept of being a good company?
[00:01:13 –> 00:02:11] Pooja: So Ed I would say that ESG is designed to measure to standardize for metrics of part of which is just sustainability. Pretty much why do we need accounting? Accounting, make sure that the financial goal of an organization was achieved. ESG is the accounting of environmental, social, and governance causes of the organization. When we talk about growth, growth alone is an incomplete concept. Growth needs a partner, a partner where the growth is beyond the financial fact sheet, where the organization can show growth from inside out in their systems, in their governance, in their contribution to the society, to the planet.
[00:02:12 –> 00:02:25] EdmundIt’s not just about this is a thing that I found interesting when delving into ESG, that it actually is not just about looking at an organization’s impact on the planet. Is it’s far more than that?
[00:02:26 –> 00:03:59] PoojaIt is far more than that. It is also looking at organization impact on the creatures that live on the planet, including as human beings. So it’s beyond environmental, how an organization takes its employees, how the organization takes its consumers, how it basically sets and grows the trust of the community that supports that organization. So it is much beyond just contributing to the planet. It is contributing to the people on the planet as well as to the other creatures. Like, look at the impact on biodiversity. So it contributes to everyone, every creature that lives on the planet. So in order to make sure that we achieve good growth, it is time when we think beyond financial returns. I know financial returns are the fiduciary responsibility of everybody, but we have to consider environmental returns, social returns, governance returns pretty much on par with financial returns. If we have to focus on good growth and good growth is the best way to grow, it is to grow with trust. It is to grow with confidence. It is to grow with the value creations of all stakeholders rather than just value extraction.
[00:04:00 –> 00:04:39] EdmundFrom your work with the investor community. Have they suddenly all become angels now, the investor community? As I said, well, we’re doing this because actually, we all want to be good investors, et cetera. Or is there just some really hard business cases out there and evidence and research that suggests that having a company with really good leadership, I’m thinking about companies like, Unilever than really trying to become a good company? Is there more and more evidence now that investors are seeing that most of the companies or actually give them better returns?
[00:04:39 –> 00:05:57] PoojaSo and I would not say angels and demons over here, rather, I would be scientific being a scientist, it’s about information. Like even when we talk about efficient market hypothesis, perfect information is very important. Before today, before the ESG, there were a lot of blind spots. But today, because of a lot of forms, a lot of data and research companies jumping in to measure the impact of the organization on the environment, social, and governance with respect to recent technology, Artificial Intelligence, and big data. With respect to regulatory push on reporting, more companies are reporting than ever before. There is a lot of information now with this rich information. Investors have more knowledge, more guidance than they used to have before. And investors are stepping up to utilize this knowledge, this guidance to support good growth that is beyond growth and better than growth.
[00:05:57 –> 00:06:36] EdmundThank you, Pooja. That’s excellent. That’s very helpful. I feel like we should talk about this all day, but I think that’s really been helpful so far. In the next video, we’re going to be talking about one specific area of business with which we were involved, which is marketing, and why ESG is particularly impactful for the marketing profession. But until then, thank you very much. Put of your time. Very helpful as ever. And I look forward to our next video. 
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